Legolas & Gollum

[LKK]

Tolkien never told us whether Legolas was personally responsible for guarding Gollum. All we know is about Gollum's escape is that one day he refused to come down from the trees. His guards stayed on the ground below the tree he was in. A disturbance was heard in the forest. Some of Gollum's guards went to investigate. When they returned, all the guards left behind were dead and Gollum was gone.

My question to you is ... what do you think was Legolas's role in this?

Was he one of the guards who left to investigate the disturbance?

Was he not there that day but was the captain or leader of the guards who were there?

Maybe Legolas wasn't responsible for Gollum's guard whatsoever?

Or maybe something else?

After you vote, if you would like to say what you voted and why, I would be very interested in hearing it!

[French Pony]

I believe that he was, at the very least, one of the guards on duty that day. His description of events is too detailed.

He knows that Gollum went up the tree and never came down, and he also knows that none of the guards went after Gollum and why. Since none of that company of guards is listed as surviving -- they were "slain or taken" -- there is no one who could have told him that information. The only way he could have known that detail is if he had been there and been the only surviving guard.

In the next paragraph, his usage of "we" as in "we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken," may very well be a corporate "we," since he is representig his people. But it's his knowledge of exactly what happened to Gollum prior to the attack that makes me think he had to have been there.





. . . and somewhere, from under the frightening pile of grad school library books (about Anglo-American balladry, feminism, Jewish liturgical music, Jewish philosophy, the history of the cantorate, postmodern media theory and the history of anime) that litters French Pony's apartment, a plotbunny stirs. . . .

[Karri]

I marked an answer, but in truth I don't really have a position on this issue. All the possible answers seem equally possible.

[Joee]

Hmm, I found this poll too hard to choose. On the one hand I agree with French Pony that he does have a very detailed account of Gollum's escape. However, on the other hand, when he says that all of the guards were slain or taken, he doesn't say "except myself," just that all of them were gone. So on that point I disagree with FP because I think the elves would have been able to determine that their guards had been taken without an eye witness.

But this is an interesting discussion and one that I have always wondered about. It is even beginning to spawn its own plot bunny, something which I've ben deprived of for some time, thanks LKK!

[LKK]

I finally voted in my own poll. I held off voting or commenting because I wanted to hear what others thought without any influence from me. (Not that I'm saying I would change your minds!)

I don't think Legolas had any direct responsibility for Gollum's guard.

Like Joee, I don't hear anything in Legolas's account that says to me he has first hand knowledge of Gollum's escape. So I don't see him as the sole survivor of the one's left behind to guard Gollum.

The other guard possibilities -- that Legolas was one of the guards who investigated the diversion or that Legolas was captain of the guard retinue -- don't feel right to me either. I know that some analyst fans have speculated that sending Legolas to Rivendell was a form of punishment for his allowing Gollum to escape. This type of punishment is a common parent type of punishment. Your son breaks a neighbor's window. You make the son go next door to apologize.

But countries and corporations don't work that way. When someone in a position of responsibility -- either in government or in business -- makes a severe mistake, that person isn't the one who apologizes. Someone who wasn't directly involved makes the apology.

For example, my HR department made a serious mistake with regards to me at the end of last year. The apology didn't come from the person who screwed up. I got an apology call from the Vice-President of HR.

I see Thranduil doing the same thing. He wouldn't send the person responsible for Gollum's escape to Elrond and Gandalf. He would send one of his best diplomats to ease the inevitable anger over the incident. I think Legolas was that diplomat.

Another reason I think Legolas wasn't involved in Gollum's escape ... would Elrond pick as the Elves' representative in the company someone who had let Gollum escape? Would you want to trust this person with additional responsibility? I wouldn't and I can't see Elrond trusting him either.

[Karri]

Volunteering for such a mission would have been a reasonable diplomatic gesture to amend his kingdom's failure.

And allowing him to go would have a proper diplomatic reply from Elrond. I agree, though, that it seems more likely that he would have allowed Legolas to volunteer if he were to directly responsible for the failure, but as his king's representative.

[Carol]

I also do not agree he had anything to do with guarding Gollum.

His going to Eivendell would have had more to do with his Royal duties of representing his father and the kindgdom of Mirkwood.

But I can't agree with the whole Elrond theory.

First of all I didn't really appear to me that Elrond had any say as to who joined the Fellowship. The oaths made were made to Frodo not Elrond. Everyone pledged their allegience to helping Frodo accomplish the task he had volunteered too.

Elrond was more or less actually announcing this group of unlikely parteners, and giving them a title to be known as.

However, if he did have some say so, I would think he would allow Legolas to join, if only to give him the opportunity to right a wrong. To redeem himself and that of his Kingdom, but because of my above oppinion I don't think this is really the case.

Sorry just my opinion, for what it is worth lol.

[LKK]

Carol, I think you're mixing movie-verse with book-verse with regards to how the members of the Company were selected.

In the movie, the members of the Company volunteered and pledged to help Frodo.

But in the book, Elrond decided who would join the Company with the exception of Frodo who volunteered outright. Elrond said, "... I will choose you companions to go with you, as far as they will or fortune allows."

Elrond decided that there would be Nine Walkers to match the Nine Riders. The first person Elrond chose to go with Frodo was Sam because it was hard to separate the two, just like the movie depicted. From there, the book and movie differ greatly.

In the book, Elrond next announced Gandalf's inclusion in the Company because the quest would be "his great task".

Next Elrond announced that Legolas and Gimli would be members to represent the elves and the dwarves. But he never said why he chose them specifically. (Much to this fan's annoyance! LOL)

Aragorn was the next person mentioned. Elrond said Aragorn was included because "the Ring of Isildur concerns him closely". Frodo was suprised that Aragorn was going to be in the Company because he thought that Aragorn would be going with Boromir. Aragorn said that Frodo was right; he was going to Minas Tirith with Boromir. However, because Boromir and Aragorn's road to Minas Tirith mimicked Frodo's path to Mount Doom for many hundreds of miles, the men were also included in the Company.

Merry and Pippin had to beg for Elrond's permission to be included in the Company. Elrond was very reluctant to let them travel with the Company. He wanted to use the last 2 spots for members of his own household. (The twins perhaps? Just a speculation.)

Elrond didn't want to include the other hobbits because he had a foreboding that there was going to be trouble in the Shire and felt that at least one of the hobbits (preferably Pippin) should be sent back to the Shire to deal with the trouble. The only reason that Elrond changed his mind was that Gandalf "unexpectedly" supported Merry and Pippin and convinced Elrond to change his mind.

I apologize for this very long way of saying that Elrond was highly influential in determining who was included in the Company. But unfortunately we still don't know why Elrond picked Legolas to be a member.

Or why Gimli was chosen, for that matter. But with Gimli, the reason can be guessed at. There weren't that many dwarves at Rivendell at the time. Gimli was probably the youngest and most healthy of the dwarves who were there. The same reasoning probably can't be applied to Elrond's selection for the elves' representative, Legolas.

[Carol]

Thanks ;D

I must go back and reread the books, after seeing the movies so many times, everything sorta mixes together.

Then again lately I'm lucky to remember my own name lol

[Joee]

Carol said:

I must go back and reread the books, after seeing the movies so many times, everything sorta mixes together.

Hehe, I do that too sometimes. I was trying to write a story not long ago strictly based on the book and after re-reading it I found that some references were actually more movie-verse.

[Carol]

Yeah thats the sad tings about it. I used to know the books by heart and don't get me wrong I love my movies but now everything is sooo jumbled. lol

Oh well I need a good bedtime story to read anyways, so woohoo it'back to a little lite reading. ;D

[Gwenneth]

I never answered this, but in the beginning I really believed that Legolas was one of Gollum's guards. I think my main problem is there is so much fanon out there about this, stories with Legolas in direct contact with Gollum, that I get a little confused at times.

In the beginning I thought he was a guard because of, like others have noted, the intimate knowledge he has of what happened. I don't know what the Mirkwood elves knew of Gollum, except that they were asked to guard him, so I can't help but think that only his guards would be really close to him. And if they knew so much about what happened the day he escaped, I have to think that SOMEONE who was there lived to tell.

But perhaps they were really good "forensic" like trackers and could read the ground and tell what happened there. That's a plausible explanation I guess.

I do, though agree with whoever mentioned the wording Legolas uses at the Council. He doesn't say "except me" anywhere, if he had been a guard he would have likely spoken in a way that showed he was one of them.

And it is a good explanation that he goes to Rivendell to represent his people. Sending a prince would show that Mirkwood truly regrets it's losing Gollum, that they don't just think, "Eh, we lost him, someone go tell Mithrandir and Elrond..."

Anyway, my two cents worth...I'm undecided, but those are my ideas on the topic.

[Karri]

I was pondering this today, and - POW! - a bunny plowed right into me. And so -- *da da dum* -- a challenge is issued to write the events in Mirkwood from Gandalf's arrival with Gollum to Legolas's departure for Rivendell. The story must include (and preferably focus on Legolas's participation in events) and should include:

- Gandalf's request that Thranduil keep Gollum
- Whether or not Legolas was a guard
- Thranduil's reason for sending Legolas as emissary to Rivendell

..........

[LKK]

*groan*

You and your plot bunnies! We have got to get that hutch built. Your bunnies are beginning to take over the house!

[Karri]

I have a new bunny, too, and a good one for drabbling he is, but am saving him for the new hutch. ;D