Legolas' Age

[Joee]

I know there is no date given for Legolas' birth, but I was wondering how old people thought he was and why.

I have a couple stories where I've made his age roughly the same as the twins for convienience purposes, but I tend to think of him as being much younger, maybe born during the watchful peace.

What does everyone else think?

[dawtheminstrel]

Michael Martinez has an article on this. It's posted here:

www.elbenwald.net/Elben/speakoflegolas.html

He basically says we don't know, but he thinks the textual evidence makes a Watchful Peace birth most likely.

Mind you, he's not saying that for certain, so it's not wrong to make Legolas the same age as the twins.


daw

[Karri]

Hi Joee,

Since I'm not much of a Michael Martinez fan, this will just be my own speculation, k? Actually I'll just copy and paste a discussion I had some months ago about that very Martinez article (hopefully the person on the other end of the discussion won't mind.)

Okay…I think Martinez makes some very good points, but I disagree that Thranduil would have found the Watchful Peace a prime child begetting time. Thranduil never doubted that Sauron would rise again. Once the shadow began to spread over Mirkwood, he knew it was only a matter of time before Middle-earth was at war again, and so it doesn’t seem to me that he would think to himself, ‘hmmm…Sauron has risen, his shadow is spreading over the Forest, war is inevitable…what a fine time to beget a child.’ (I’m not one who believes that he would have done so to ensure an heir, as I think Thranduil would have thought it foolish to conceive a child on the off-chance that, should he die in battle, there would be a kingdom left standing to rule – and if he did beget a child to ensure an heir, I suspect he would have sent the child to be reared somewhere safer than Mirkwood.)

There is no mention of any of the elves born in the Third Age (or speculated to be born in the Third Age) getting married or having children. I think the reason the Twins, Arwen and Legolas are still single, even though elves allegedly prefer to marry in their youth, is because the stability of the Third Age is so fragile. (Notably, the one couple specifically mentioned falling in love after 1050 T.A., Amroth and Nimrodel, promptly decided to depart for Valinor.)

Now for something slightly less speculative (but only a hair)…. To me, the most profound statement that Legolas makes concerning his age is in Fangorn Forest. Most of the time when Legolas makes reference to himself, he speaks of himself as a representative of the Wood-elves (which is one point on which Martinez and I agree.) Therefore his responses tend to be very ambiguous. However in his awe upon entering Fangorn, Legolas does not speak as a representative of his people. He is speaking from his heart when is states that the forest is so old that it almost makes him feel young again. (This is from an elf that declared that 500 years was but a blink of an eye to the elves and says of the tale of Nimrodel only that it happened long enough ago that he has forgotten much of it.) In Fangorn, he almost feels young in comparison to a forest that has existed since before the elves first awakened. If he were only 500, I think he would not almost feel young, he would feel like an elfling.

As for how old I make Legolas to be…I’ve never set an age to him. I think he was born after Elrond’s children, but sometime during the first millennium of the Third Age. Beyond that, I simply shrug my shoulders.

[dawtheminstrel]

You are so sharp on these things, Karri! Good points.

[Karri]

Some would say sharp, others would say contrary... Hm, I like sharp, we'll go with that. ;D Thank you, daw.

[Karri]

Would anyone else like to make a case for an age for Legolas? Or just share what age you prefer to see him? I have heard some great arguments, so I know there are more out there...

As I said above, I generally consider him to have been born pre-1050 T.A., but I have read some very entertaining and nicely thought out AU speculating on how it might have effected attidudes had Legolas been born after the Battle of Five Armies, so that he was still hovering between childhood and adulthood during the Fellowship.

[Joee]

Karri said:

I have read some very entertaining and nicely thought out AU speculating on how it might have effected attidudes had Legolas been born after the Battle of Five Armies, so that he was still hovering between childhood and adulthood during the Fellowship.

I never would have considered him to have been born that late. Which story was this?

[Karri]

Joee said:

I never would have considered him to have been born that late. Which story was this?

No, not even the author of the fic considered him to really be that young, she was just having some fun playing with the possibility. Alas, it has been ages since I read it. I will have to do some hunting to find the author and fic. I'll be back...*Karri warns in her best Arnold voice before wandering off to search*

[Karri]

*sigh* No luck yet. I will have to look some more tomorrow.

[French Pony]

An interesting question. I've always suspected that Legolas is pretty young -- kind of post-adolescent. A college-boy elf. I first read LOTR when I was ten years old, and my initial impression, based only on the way the characters interacted with each other, was that Legolas wasn't much more than a kid. He doesn't act especially mature -- he prances around on Caradhras, picks petty fights with Gimli, he doesn't seem to have ever been away from home before (in fact, he gets pretty homesick while floating down the Anduin), he defers very naturally to Aragorn (petty mortal that he is), he wants to know about everything going on around him, and he wants to know NOW (what are the eyes in the wood?), he mentions that he's going to ask Thranduil for permission to move to Ithilien (Gimli just announces that he'll come to Aglarond) and the rest of the characters, especially in "Fellowship," tend to put him at the "kiddie table" along with the Hobbits. In short, he behaves a lot like I did as a very precocious ten-year-old.

In fact, I think that's one of the reasons he's still my favorite character. The Tolkien reader in me is still that precocious ten-year-old, and Legolas still seems like one of the cool older college kids. Just grown-up enough to be cool, but not so grown-up as to be really adult and no fun at all. But I digress.

I know he says that he's older than dirt. But one of the great rules of writing, which I learned from the writer's and the actor's perspectives, is that what a character says about himself is the least reliable source of information. Look at his actions, look at what others say about him, and look at how others treat him. And all three of those indicators told me, at ten and at twenty-eight, that Legolas isn't much more than a kid.*

At least, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.




*Though my "official" age for him, when I wrote "Coming Home," was that he was as old as his tongue and a little older than his teeth, and that was all that anybody really needed to know.

[LKK]

French said:

he was as old as his tongue and a little older than his teeth

What a delightful saying, French Pony! Did you invent it? Or did you borrow it from somewhere?

I've been meaning to chime in on this thread but RL has conspired to keep me quiet on the internet for a bit. That's neither here nor there, of course.

Anyways ..... my 2 cents on the Legolas age question.

When I first read a serious estimate of Legolas's age back in the late 70s, the author guessed he was around 3,000 years old. I accepted and agreed with that age until the past year or so when I read Martinez's article.

I read Martinez's article several times before I came around to his way of thinking. Sort of. I don't agree with Martinez completely. I think he overplays Legolas's youthful aspects and underestimates his more mature moments. So I see Legolas as older than Martinez does but younger than Karri does. If forced to give Legolas's age a number, I would say somewhere between 800 and 1000 --- basically adding another quarter century to Martinez's estimate.

Why do I go with an older Legolas than Martinez? There are moments of age in him such as when he explains how elves perceive time or when he talks about the leaves on the Golden Hall. There's a true sense of someone who has lived long enough to understand what those topics really mean in the passages. Another moment that I think reflects age is when Legolas talks about people following Aragorn for the love they feel to him. The type of love Legolas is referring to is a very mature adult kind of love -- follower (soldier) to leader (captain) -- that a child rarely understands. I don't think Martinez gives the depth of those passages the weight they deserve in his evaluation.

Why do I go with a younger Legolas than Karri does? I think French Pony explained it best. Legolas indulges in some very youthful, immature behavior during the quest. The incident that stands out in my mind is when he's ready to abandon the group traveling to Orthanc and ride off to see the trees with the eyes. He's like a kid in a grocery store who's just spotted the candy aisle. No thought as to what he's supposed to be doing or even that he's riding with an unnerved passenger. All he thinks about is seeing the trees. Think of Pippin dropping the stone in the well in Moria; it's the same thing.

So now I go with a younger Legolas as a writer. Although his age hasn't played a role in any of my writings yet.

[French Pony]

LKK said:

What a delightful saying, French Pony! Did you invent it? Or did you borrow it from somewhere?

Oh, goodness, that's one of those sayings that's so old that nobody remembers where it came from. Everyone's grandmother seems to invoke it when asked how old they are.

[Karri]

I have to admit the idea of Legolas being very young at the time of the Fellowship appeals to me greatly, I can just never seem to get reason to accept it.

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