|
Post by Karri on Sept 26, 2004 15:13:31 GMT -5
Why do you think this, Karri? Butter is fairly easy to make. And if we envision farming elves (*giggle*), then those away from the palace could grow cereals as easily as those near the palace. Or were you picturing the butter and cereals to be exclusively imported?[/img] Yes, I am imaging these items as imports - butter, as it is mentioned as one of the items floated up and down the river in a barrel, and cereal, because I can't imagine the elves clearing sufficient space near the palace to grow cereals. I can imagine elves farming, but on lands outside the forest, and then transporting to the palace via river. Elves who live away from the palace but inside the Forest I don't envision as farmers, and so they might be somewhat dependent on the palace for supplimental provisions. I suppose I can't see livestock kept or much farming done within the forest, but those elves living in villages, such as the one on the riverbank where Bilbo spends the night with his stolen pie and leather bottle of wine, would, I think, be self-sufficient, as they could more easily clear a bit of land to farm and pasture livestock. Of course, a single elf family might be able to hunt/gather enough (perhaps with the aid of a small garden) to be self-sufficient. So I'll qualify my previous statement with if they went to the palace to get supplies, they would probably bring something (a portion of their hunt or several batches of arrow shafts, etc.) to exchange out of courtesy.
|
|
|
Post by LKK on Sept 26, 2004 15:26:08 GMT -5
It makes writing historically difficult, too -- remembering that, in the Middle Ages, the character would not have known the importance of good hygiene and might have thought that a person suffering seizures was possessed by evil spirits. Fortunately, there is a little more leeway in fantasy (for elves can get away with being ahead of their time), but still it is difficult to detach oneself from modern-day knowledge and use only what the character would have known. You hit one of my personal bugaboos in Tolkien fanfic, Karri. Stories that give characters technological, scientific, or most commonly medical knowledge beyond what can reasonably be expected by societies living in the Dark Ages. Okay, I can go with upping elven knowledge (especially Noldor) to the level of the Renaissance. And I'll certainly give allowances for fantasy. But please don't try to convince me that Elrond knows about microbiology. Well, you can try, if you like. But I promise you, your efforts will be unsuccessful. [Editoral Note: The use of the word "you" is a general term and does not refer to any specific writer here or elsewhere. ;D]
|
|
|
Post by Karri on Sept 26, 2004 15:42:07 GMT -5
I think you are right about that. A workshop I attended at Science Fiction Writers convention last May stressed that in order to build a believable alternate world (fantasy or sci fi), you needed to make sure that it had a working economy, government, religion, etc.. Tolkien, though, is a forefather of modern fantasy/sci-fi, and he was writing pre-fanfiction (at least publicly displayed), so I suspect he didn’t realize how critical it would be for a fanfiction author to understand the socio-ecomomic workings of the lands east of the Misty Mountains. Also, I think he was working more in the realm of myth-making, instead of world-creating.
|
|
|
Post by LKK on Sept 26, 2004 16:09:56 GMT -5
Yes, I am imaging these items as imports - butter, as it is mentioned as one of the items floated up and down the river in a barrel, and cereal, because I can't imagine the elves clearing sufficient space near the palace to grow cereals. I can imagine elves farming, but on lands outside the forest, and then transporting to the palace via river. I didn't remember that butter was specifically mentioned as an import. Since it was, you're absolutely right. I suppose cereals could be grown in small clearings inside the forest as Nilmandra suggested. But on the whole, I agree that any larger farming plots would be just outside the forest. I don't see wood elves clearing forest lands for farms. Again, I agree. It goes along with my feelings that elves have a desire to pay (in whatever form) for what they take. I mentioned it with regards to their relationship with nature. But the idea also applies to how I see elves dealing with each other and with other races.
|
|
|
Post by daw the minstrel on Sept 27, 2004 9:41:09 GMT -5
I've also always thought that elves would have small gardens near their homes. You wouldn't be able to grow very much in the woods, but you could probably get something. And I think the would plant apple trees. Those are easy and the fruit keeps all winter.
|
|
|
Post by Karri on Sept 27, 2004 15:03:11 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems very elf-ish to have a garden, even if it was as much for the enjoyment of gardening as the food it produced. They imported some apples (another specified barrel item), but I agree with you that it seems like they would have planted some apple trees as well, along with trees with nuts more edible than acorns (ie. hazels and chestnuts.)
Also, another thought on this quote:
It could be that the problem lies in misinterpreting the word – the context here might be trade meaning an occupation requiring skill (such a carpentry), instead of trade meaning and exchange of goods/gold. It would still seem odd to me that the elves did not have such skills as woodworking, but it could be that they had the skill to do their own carpentry, weaving, etc., but did not produce surplus goods to exchange with their neighbors, so in the eyes of their neighbors it seemed as though the elves did not bother with the learning of useful trades.
|
|
|
Post by dawtheminstrel on Sept 27, 2004 21:03:23 GMT -5
Oh but I heard this program on NPR about a native American tribe that used acorns for a lot of their food. They ground them into a kind of flour and used it to make bread and porridge and stuff. The person who was talking said they had tried it and it was a lot of work, but the food was actually quite tasty. They said it had a pleasant nutty taste.
Of course, they could be a little odd.
|
|
|
Post by Karri on Sept 28, 2004 17:03:15 GMT -5
LOL! They could be. Yup, acorns are very edible, once the tannic acid has been soaked out of them (otherwise they are very bitter.)
|
|
|
Post by WWW on Sept 4, 2008 18:38:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by WWW on Sept 4, 2008 18:39:02 GMT -5
|
|